zlacker

[return to "FBI used Etsy, LinkedIn to make arrest in torching of Philadelphia police cars"]
1. manfre+a9[view] [source] 2020-06-17 21:47:31
>>fortra+(OP)
While it's not exactly a novel technique (I've read similar stories since the early 2010s at least), I'm continuously surprises by how much people are able to glean from inferences and online sources. The saga of the "he will not divide us" flag is particularly impressive.
◧◩
2. def8ce+I9[view] [source] 2020-06-17 21:50:59
>>manfre+a9
It's called OSINT and it's been around a lot longer than 2010.
◧◩◪
3. mikece+gb[view] [source] 2020-06-17 22:02:27
>>def8ce+I9
I'm not sure why 'def8cefe' is being voted down for pointing out the name of this process. OSINT is short for "open source intelligence" and the TL;DR is that only "open sources" (eg: not government/restricted datasets) are use to perform a digital investigation. Steve Rambam has given talks about digital investigations from the very beginning of the H.O.P.E. Conferences on this topic. In addition to law enforcement using this it's also used by private investigators or just amateur enthusiasts who team up to help solve missing children cases and track down info from other past cold cases or to even bust child trafficking rings. The skills natural to Hacker News readers makes me surprised there's not more general interest in OSINT here, especially defensive tactics to make sure we allow as little of our personal info to land in open datasets to feed OSINT investigations in the future.
◧◩◪◨
4. def8ce+Mb[view] [source] 2020-06-17 22:05:09
>>mikece+gb
There is interest in OSINT but my comment could be misconstrued as supportive of or normalizing LE practises so that upsets a very vocal interest group on the Internet.
◧◩◪◨⬒
5. mmm_gr+7d[view] [source] 2020-06-17 22:11:25
>>def8ce+Mb
I mean, I don't think even the internet nut-jobs support torching police cars...

Edit: Ouch, looks like quite a few people here do. Do y'all really think that's the best way to effect social and political change? A minority of Americans screaming louder and using terrorism to vent their spleens won't solve the issue. In a democracy, everyone must focus on getting more people to vote for different policies to effect change.

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓
6. dx87+if[view] [source] 2020-06-17 22:27:22
>>mmm_gr+7d
Depending on the reason for protest, police cars and government buildings are some of the only things it makes sense to burn down IMO. With the recent protests against police and government racism, for example, I'd understand them burning things belonging to the people oppressing them rather than stores and businesses that provide jobs and services for people in the area.
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔
7. mmm_gr+Bl[view] [source] 2020-06-17 23:11:58
>>dx87+if
I mean people are torching stuff in entirely different cities. It's not like they're torching chauvin's car then going home. Still illegal, but I guess I could understand the process behind that. Burning some cop car in Atlanta, what? That's just mob rage.
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯
8. malnou+ln[view] [source] 2020-06-17 23:26:40
>>mmm_gr+Bl
I think that dismisses the very real impact long term systemic racism has had. Additionally, a black man was just (allegedly, charges have been filed) murdered by the police after a a police officer shot him in the back and another stood on his shoulders while he was dying.

There is justifiable outrage. I do not condone wanton destruction and arson, but disruptive protests work in a way that peaceful ones alone do not.

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯▣
9. salawa+Or[view] [source] 2020-06-18 00:06:57
>>malnou+ln
If you watch the body cam footage on that, you'll notice that after the suspect yoinked the officer's Tazer and booked it, his partner did try to Taze the subject but missed. Shortly thereafter you hear the two shots.

If the suspect hadn't stolen the cop's Tazer, he may very well be alive today. I cannot fault an officer for using his sidearm when someone is running off with his Tazer given the situation. A suspect running off with your piece is nightmare fuel for cops as I understand it, and in that situation, I'm willing to wager training and instinct won over political consciousness.

Point being, things went through an escalation from non-lethal to lethal in the right order. There is no reason besides wanting to be outraged to use that encounter as an example of the system gone wrong. If anyone else had done the same, I have no doubt it'd end the same way.

If we're talking about the drunk fellow in the drive-thru at least.

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯▣▦
10. filmfa+ov[view] [source] 2020-06-18 00:38:39
>>salawa+Or
>>> If anyone else had done the same, I have no doubt it'd end the same way.

But isn’t that the problem though? Shouldn’t police only use deadly force in the face of an imminent objectively reasonable deadly threat?

Someone running away from you with a taser doesn’t constitute that threat.

The reason the cop shot was pure ego. Him and his buddy just had their ass handed to them, and now the guy was getting away.

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯▣▦▧
11. salawa+YC[view] [source] 2020-06-18 02:02:00
>>filmfa+ov
>Someone running away from you with a taser doesn’t constitute that threat.

Someone running away from you with a loaded incapacitating weapon, in a state of altered consciousness, unresponsive to any commands, and uncooperative with any protocols that govern interaction with authority after you just got done fighting with them, so under the influence of an adrenaline spike.

Look, I'm no fan of the calculus of interaction with the justice system getting tilted heavily in the direction of 'your life is about to be permanently ruined anyway", but goddamnit, I'm not faulting someone in those circumstances, especially when everyone involved still managed to follow protocol.

I don't believe in "tough on crime" deterrence by punishment policing as a panacea. Hell, I think incarceration is done in excess, and some of the things we tack the felony label on which just so happens to disenfranchise someone from voting for life seems a bit damn fishy. I don't even blame the guy in making a run for it given the current climate, or otherwise. Willingly giving up your agency is unnatural as all hell when you're in your right mind. In an altered state? That doesn't mean you get some sort of get out of the consequences free card, or that you can get into a violent scuffle with an armed officer, run off with his equipment, and not run the risk of things getting escalated further, especially when there are other people around. If anything, that in and of itself should be motivation enough not to let yourself get that far gone.

It isn't like I don't feel for the family, or about the circumstances. It isn't like I threw a hat in the air to celebrate the story. Quite the opposite. I wanted to see what happened to judge for myself, and well, I can't with 100% certainty say that in imagining myself as an officer with training, and regular experience with violent interactions on the streets, and having a target painted on my back due to the current political atmosphere adding to already considerable job stress that I might not have done the same thing in the heat of the moment, especially if I thought other people may be harmed given that a suspect just ran off with a piece of my equipment, and my frontal lobe hadn't yet registered my handgun was in my hands, if I didn't get things under control now.

In my case, a hypothetical one mind, it wouldn't even come from a place of ego so much as concern in terms of an imperative to minimize potential harm to bystanders.

So... I guess what I'm saying is I can entertain the reasonability of his actions. You might not. I don't expect everyone to see things like I do. Given the footage I saw curated by the media, I can accept that things escalated, but an attempt at following protocol was made, which is enough to get the officers off the hook in my book. I may not like that it did, but I've been around enough scuffles and frenzied encounters where lives are on the line to know that when stuff goes down, 90% of the rational creature takes a hike until the substance of the confrontation is resolved.

And not a damn word of this response would change given the suspect's color.

We all want to get out alive. We shouldn't have to feel like today is going to be the day. We shouldn't be locked in a fundamental struggle to just get by and be left alone. Yet... Here we are. Wish it was different. Wish it was a hell of a lot different. Wish that what ever drove him to get that incapacitated to escape from it hadn't been so bad. I wish that getting perp walked weren't something so adept at ruining your life. I wish we were all a bit more forgiving of each other in our moment's of weakness; but you can wish in one hand, and shit in the other, and see which one fills up first.

The cop did what he was trained to do. His partner did what he was trained to do, the courts will do what they're going to do. Whether I wish it different or not. You can condemn him. I won't. I can't. I didn't see a fundamental breach of protocol.

EDIT: and to be clear, I tried putting myself in the victim's shoes, as difficult as that is, and I'd probably be dead too in that case if dropped in at the moment his fight or flight instinct kicked in. So make no mistake, it isn't coming from a place of "it can't happen to me." Out of my sane mind, I'm fairly certain I'd elevate my freedom above all else.

If what I've said here makes me a horrible person... I guess I'm a horrible person.

[go to top]