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[return to "How much do we need the police?"]
1. js2+G5[view] [source] 2020-06-03 22:33:48
>>js2+(OP)
I know folks don't always click through, so I'll highlight what I found most insightful:

> Part of our misunderstanding about the nature of policing is we keep imagining that we can turn police into social workers. That we can make them nice, friendly community outreach workers. But police are violence workers. That's what distinguishes them from all other government functions. ... They have the legal capacity to use violence in situations where the average citizen would be arrested.

> So when we turn a problem over to the police to manage, there will be violence, because those are ultimately the tools that they are most equipped to utilize: handcuffs, threats, guns, arrests. That's what really is at the root of policing. So if we don't want violence, we should try to figure out how to not get the police involved.

> Political protests are a threat to the order of this system. And so policing has always been the primary tool for managing those threats to the public order. Just as we understand the use of police to deal with homelessness as a political failure, every time we turn a political order problem over to the police to manage, that's also a political failure.

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2. derekp+4i[view] [source] 2020-06-03 23:44:14
>>js2+G5
I wonder if it would work to have the police split into two separate units (kind of like how the swat team is separate). So you have a general response police unit, which is unarmed or lightly armed (taser / nightstick, etc). They would respond to most situations, and would be highly trained in de-escalation techniques. Then have the backup units be the muscle. In situations that they feel are dicey, the backup could show up at the same time, but hang back unless they are needed.

The main problem with this is that they don't know what they will be facing when they get to the scene. In most cases things go smoothly (traffic stops, domestic calls, detective work). But when things go bad they go bad quickly.

Of course if the first-responding police wore different uniforms, then there may be less chance of escalation. And people would know that as soon as the first responder has to call backup, then things will get really bad for them -- kind of like if you harass a social worker, you will have a very bad day.

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3. Ididnt+4k[view] [source] 2020-06-03 23:56:54
>>derekp+4i
" So you have a general response police unit, which is unarmed or lightly armed (taser / nightstick, etc). They would respond to most situations, and would be highly trained in de-escalation techniques. Then have the backup units be the muscle. In situations that they feel are dicey, the backup could show up at the same time, but hang back unless they are needed. "

That's how the Brits do it and I think the Germans too.

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4. VonGal+di1[view] [source] 2020-06-04 09:07:57
>>Ididnt+4k
Police in Germany definitely are armed. As far as I know they always have a Pistol and they might have less lethal options as well. Sometimes you see them with a MP5 as well which is a compact submachine gun.

I do agree with the training in de-escalation though. German Police has a much more extensive training then the US.

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