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[return to "How much do we need the police?"]
1. js2+G5[view] [source] 2020-06-03 22:33:48
>>js2+(OP)
I know folks don't always click through, so I'll highlight what I found most insightful:

> Part of our misunderstanding about the nature of policing is we keep imagining that we can turn police into social workers. That we can make them nice, friendly community outreach workers. But police are violence workers. That's what distinguishes them from all other government functions. ... They have the legal capacity to use violence in situations where the average citizen would be arrested.

> So when we turn a problem over to the police to manage, there will be violence, because those are ultimately the tools that they are most equipped to utilize: handcuffs, threats, guns, arrests. That's what really is at the root of policing. So if we don't want violence, we should try to figure out how to not get the police involved.

> Political protests are a threat to the order of this system. And so policing has always been the primary tool for managing those threats to the public order. Just as we understand the use of police to deal with homelessness as a political failure, every time we turn a political order problem over to the police to manage, that's also a political failure.

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2. joseph+8b[view] [source] 2020-06-03 23:04:57
>>js2+G5
I think that’s made much more true because that’s the image police forces in America have of themselves. “We’re here to beat up the bad guys”. Police here in Australia are far from perfect, but they are much more seen as part of the community. They don’t even carry firearms any more.

In Australia I wouldn’t hesitate to contact the police or talk to them on the street if something happened. (Just like I wouldn’t hesitate to call an ambulance if someone gets hurt). When I lived in the Bay Area that attitude seemed naive and stupid / dangerous.

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3. djrobs+df[view] [source] 2020-06-03 23:29:07
>>joseph+8b
I don't know what part of Australia you're in, but literally every cop I've ever encountered here carries a firearm.

They also have a pretty decent rep for brutality themselves, particularly if you're indigenous.

So you are presenting a very misleading view.

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4. missos+Mj[view] [source] 2020-06-03 23:55:17
>>djrobs+df
Yes most police in AU carry a firearm.

No they don't have a 'decent rep' for brutality, whatever that means. Comparing AU police to US police is insane. Every encounter with police like a traffic stop in the US is a nonzero chance of getting killed. That's not at all comparable to Australia where there are no tasers and the use of lethal force is in the single digits per year nationally.

The view you're presenting is significantly more divorced from reality than the GP. Just like GP said, calling the police in the states even if you need their aid, is a gamble. In Australia I would not hesitate to call or interact with the police under any circumstances. Even in the immediate vicinity the Bourke St incident, I felt safe approaching and interacting with the SRG guys decked out in their military gear and automatic rifles. They went out of their way to make sure me and people with me got a safe corridor to leave the area. In the states, that'd be about a 100% chance of getting shot.

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5. mythrw+pR[view] [source] 2020-06-04 05:08:55
>>missos+Mj
Cops fatally shoot about 1000 people in the US every year from what I read. The US has over 300 million people.

Not nonzero but... well, you can do the math.

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6. watwut+vh1[view] [source] 2020-06-04 08:59:39
>>mythrw+pR
When I traveled to Unites States, I was told that if cops stop me, I have to keep hands on wheel otherwise they might shoot me. I got no similar advice anywhere else. In other western countries, I know cops wont shoot me if I move hands around noramly.

This sort of thing add to the perception of American police.

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