zlacker

[return to "How much do we need the police?"]
1. Burnin+uc[view] [source] 2020-06-03 23:13:41
>>js2+(OP)
Montreal once had a 16 hour police strike, creating a natural experiment in what happens without police.

Steven Pinker describes how that went:

> "As a young teenager in proudly peaceable Canada during the romantic 1960s, I was a true believer in Bakunin's anarchism. I laughed off my parents' argument that if the government ever laid down its arms all hell would break loose. Our competing predictions were put to the test at 8:00 a.m. on October 7, 1969, when the Montreal police went on strike. By 11:20 am, the first bank was robbed. By noon, most of the downtown stores were closed because of looting. Within a few more hours, taxi drivers burned down the garage of a limousine service that competed with them for airport customers, a rooftop sniper killed a provincial police officer, rioters broke into several hotels and restaurants, and a doctor slew a burglar in his suburban home. By the end of the day, six banks had been robbed, a hundred shops had been looted, twelve fires had been set, forty carloads of storefront glass had been broken, and three million dollars in property damage had been inflicted, before city authorities had to call in the army and, of course, the Mounties to restore order. This decisive empirical test left my politics in tatters (and offered a foretaste of life as a scientist)."[16]

◧◩
2. vnceca+Ss[view] [source] 2020-06-04 01:06:56
>>Burnin+uc
How is this a natural experiment? Anarchism isn't just "when there are no police" Obviously looting should be read as exposing underlying ills and unmet needs within society. Like are you suggesting the natural state of people is just to loot and behave completely selfishly? look how many people in just the US riots alone cooperated to form medical stations, to work against police tactics, to make sure protestors had water and snacks etc..
◧◩◪
3. Burnin+1u[view] [source] 2020-06-04 01:17:51
>>vnceca+Ss
> Like are you suggesting the natural state of people is just to loot and behave completely selfishly?

Don't know about that, but there is ABSOLUTELY enough selfish/predatory/angry people in any population that will commit violent acts for profit and pleasure if the risks of being brought to justice disappears.

I would not have guessed it would erupt as fast as it did in Montreal, but empirically, it did.

I expect day 2 would have been a lot worse. Pray that we never find out :)

> Obviously looting should be read as exposing underlying ills and unmet needs within society

Well, some people never find their needs met...

◧◩◪◨
4. chippe+ow[view] [source] 2020-06-04 01:40:01
>>Burnin+1u
Day 2 may have been a lot better as store owners started to take matters into their own hands. We only saw the first day, which many people were unprepared for. A lot less people would be willing to loot if they had a friend who died after getting shot by a store owner with a shotgun. Not that this is really any better, I'm just trying to say that we can't really reach any conclusions from one day of this experiment
◧◩◪◨⬒
5. awb+px[view] [source] 2020-06-04 01:50:51
>>chippe+ow
Pretty sure gangs would take over. Power abhors a vacuum.
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓
6. thephy+AE[view] [source] 2020-06-04 03:05:33
>>awb+px
Yeah, but police units and private security firms are a form of "gang", just with different pay masters and accountability.
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔
7. throwa+fR[view] [source] 2020-06-04 05:07:39
>>thephy+AE
Notably accountability to the people (in principle if imperfect in practice), which is an important distinction indeed.
[go to top]