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[return to "ACLU sues Minnesota for police violence against the press"]
1. eric_b+Hl[view] [source] 2020-06-03 20:23:51
>>sorami+(OP)
I'm interested to see what comes out of all this. I am very glad I do not live in Minneapolis. I did not see a specific damages amount in the complaint, but I am assuming it will be high, especially if granted class action status. Bankrupting state and city police forces probably "feels" good to a lot of people here. But what are the second and third order effects of underfunded police departments?

In MN the Minneapolis city council wants to disband the police department entirely. This may be all talk, and I'm not sure if it's technically possible, but what happens if there is no police department? What are the second and third order effects of that? Is having no law enforcement a better outcome for the residents? My initial reaction is "no".

When confronted with videos of people rioting, looting and vandalising most respond that "it's only a few bad apples, the vast majority are peaceful". Is it not true that most cops are OK too? I'm honestly asking. Yes there are some problem cops - Chauvin obviously having a long history of issues. But are we really saying that the majority of cops are bad actors? It feels like with emotions so hot right now, people are willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I am skeptical that is the right course of action.

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2. bberen+cn[view] [source] 2020-06-03 20:30:47
>>eric_b+Hl
I don't think disbanding a police force means what you think it means. Take a look at https://www.governing.com/topics/public-justice-safety/gov-c...

The goal is to wipe the slate clean and rebuild from the foundation.

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3. eric_b+Pn[view] [source] 2020-06-03 20:33:38
>>bberen+cn
From your article:

"The Camden County Police Department rehired most of the laid-off cops, along with nearly 100 other officers, but at much lower salaries and with fewer benefits than they had received from the city."

So the solution was to keep most of the cops (which I agree with) and then pay them less (which I, umm... I mean... that doesn't seem like a recipe for success but eh).

From that article it sounds like it's too early to tell if it worked. Is the new police force doing better than the old one?

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4. bberen+Uy[view] [source] 2020-06-03 21:27:50
>>eric_b+Pn
You can look into a history of similar activities across the world. The process of firing and rebuilding from scratch is the only one I know that has consistently worked. The ones that come to mind other than Camden is Northern Ireland [1] and Georgia (country)[2]. I believe there were a few other cases of this in the US, but I can't remember them off the top of my head.

The Norther Ireland article specifically covers a few of the reasons why this works.

Edit: I realized that I didn't respond to your question of whether this demonstrates an improvement in Camden. Citylab seems to think so, but offers a nuanced explanation of why this may not be the case and what other factors are at play [3]

[1] https://www.sipri.org/commentary/topical-backgrounder/2019/p... [2]https://www.centreforpublicimpact.org/case-study/siezing-mom... [3] https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/01/what-happened-to-crim...

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