zlacker

>>novia+(OP)
Probably a bit of a controversial opinion but in some cases I can sympathize with the police officers. The reality is that the vast majority of them likely condemn the events around George Floyd's death. They are also regular people with families, children and friends they have to provide for. And they have the exact same problems that many of us do. Their daily work involves keeping things in order, which is something I respect. That said, the first video I opened at random[1] shows a small number of people blocking a road in what looks more like a civil war scene rather than a protest. And the authorities are greeted with "F-U" and people tossing objects at them. The people in uniforms are ordinary people. Put yourself in their shoes and tell me: having all the problems you have, seeing all the destruction, which in all cases is no longer a protest, people shouting "f-u" and throwing stuff at you: You can be the most mentally stable human being but everyone has a limit. Many of those men are possibly working overtime, in extreme conditions and I bet they would much rather be with their kids or sick parents for instance. With this idea in mind, I personally can't picture myself being able to remain calm and not overstep my boundaries sooner or later.

Now putting myself in the shoes of the protesters: seeing the same destruction, destroying of properties, cars and businesses, I'll call it a day because this is no longer a protest. I'd go back home and wait for this to be taken care of and join a civilized protest once this has been taken care of. A civilized country should be able to hold a civilized protest. And having spent most of my life in eastern Europe, you can say I know a thing or two about protests. Last large protest I was a part of was in ~2013 irrc and the aftermath was very different. The night after each of those protests, everything was spotless clean, people thew all their garbage in the bins, nothing broken or destroyed. People were coming with their children and pets and being completely comfortable with it. There was a completely unrelated incident of a gas explosion at a Chinese restaurant, which burned a nearby shop. People gathered donations fo the shop owner to recover. Incidents with police? Practically none during ~3 months of daily protest. And we are talking eastern Europe - the police officers are anything but the nicest people on the planet.

[1] https://twitter.com/XruthxNthr/status/1266903223220097024

>>axegon+3a
> A civilized country should be able to hold a civilized protest.

The protests started out peaceful but became less peaceful when the police showed up and tear gassed innocent crowds. There's people literally getting arrested for practicing their right to assemble and right to freedom of speech.

>>miguel+Ga
That is the thing about collectivism though. Imagine one person throwing a bottle from the crowd at the police(something which can be seen in tons of videos). The idea of collectivism implies that the crowd itself is no longer innocent at that point. Not to mention the destruction of public and private properties. The words "rights" and "responsibilities" go hand in hand and people love ignoring that fact.

>>axegon+Wb
Question for you regarding your usage of collectivism though: You say you have empathy for the police. Yet by your own definition of collectivism, the crowd is no longer innocent the moment they're attacking the police.

Why are you not applying the same logic to the police state? The police murdered George Floyd, so doesn't that imply the police are no longer innocent at this point? Why is only one side beholden to rights and responsibilities? At that point isn't it your obligation to stand up to a group becoming criminal?

>>fzeror+Qk
You are over-simplifying things way too much. Derek Chauvin, along with the officers accompanying him are collectively guilty. In my view, equally guilty. Now, a policeman on the other side of the country who a week ago had no idea that George Floyd or Derek Chauvin or the other officers existed?

That's the equivalent of blaming any European for the Holocaust or any Muslim for terrorist attacks or any eastern European for car thefts or any other stereotype you can think of. I mean isn't this what the whole thing is about? Abolishing stereotypes? I'm all up for that, but trying to abolish something by actively using it seems really counter-productive to say the least.

As I previously said, I've had encounters with horrid police officers, regardless of my polite manners. But I'm also aware policemen are people with the exact same problem like any of us. I see something deeply hypocritical in the whole situation(and the many similar situations across the world over the years). Truth be told I only know one police officer personally. And the truth is he is one of the kindest people I have ever met, despite being utterly strict in his work. Now given the opportunity to choose between rocks flying his way and people calling him a dirty pig or playing with his 2 year old granddaughter in the evenings, which one do you think he'd rather pick?