zlacker

>>hhs+(OP)
In my city we have seen several peaceful protesters (some quite some distance away from police) be nearly killed by less lethal ammunition. Being hit in the head or neck by a rubber bullet will drop a person to the ground unconscious instantly. This means they can even hit their head again against pavement. Nobody has died yet, but they are clearly extremely dangerous.

We have also seen the use of tear gas. I don't want the police to hurt anyone, but I haven't seen any long term damage from its use.

If police are going to use force, from what I have seen, tear gas is less dangerous. It is still awful. I'd rather it not be used, but I just wanted to share what I've seen.

>>montec+M6
Police appear to be misusing rubber bullets, possibly on purpose.

Rubber bullets are supposed to be fired at shin height, to achieve the appropriate mix of pain and risk reduction. They’re not zero risk because of ricochets, but flat, low trajectories help. It should go without saying that they should only be used when necessary, but if they must be used there is a way it should be done.

The number of people being struck in the chest and head by rubber bullets implies that the cops are aiming for the head, a gross abuse of force if true.

>>ashton+A7
There are multiple videos of cops aiming and firing directly at the face and head, sometimes only a few feet away. It's terrifying and disheartening.

>>brende+i8
I feel like rubber bullets should be serialized, so you can know who fired it. It shouldn’t be too hard, they’re both extremely large and consumed in relatively small quantities.

>>ashton+R8
How would you find a specific bullet, though? It doesn't usually get lodged.

>>Stavro+3b
Lots of rubber bullets are big, roughly the size of a soda can. They aren’t too hard to locate and keep.

It’s only the less effective shot shells that are more likely to bounce around and be hard to track.

>>ashton+8e
Oh, huh, I thought they were paintball-sized.

>>Stavro+ze
Some are, usually they’re packed into 12ga shot shells, but those are limited in their velocity due to their tendency to penetrate rather than bounce off the victims. The bigger ones are able to strike further and harder with a reduced risk of penetration.

At the paintball size it’s now more common to see CS filled paintballs. Those don’t require a huge amount of kinetic energy to work, although exposure to CS gas has its own long term side effects.

>>ashton+if
Those paintballs are filled with oleoresin capsicum (OC) which is a far more persistent and "persuasive" substance. Getting hit with a CS paintball would be ineffectual due to the small amount and the fact that it wears off quickly.

What "long term side effects" does CS have? The US Army (at least) routinely puts all soldiers through a CS filled gas chamber as part of chemical warfare training and has done so for decades.

>>herewu+w92
There are no longitudinal studies, because it is very difficult to find a sample of repeatedly tear-gassed subjects over relatively long timeframes. Hong Kong is a good example though, where estimates are that ~90% of the population have been exposed. In Hong Kong, long-term exposure has been connected with rashes, respiratory problems and chloracne.

>>comput+1i2
I see from another reply from him that herewulf that you reply to has been repeatedly exposed to concentrates cs over multiple years.

eitland has been exposed to concentrated cs at least once, Anigbrowl multiple times including more than just once just this last week and it seems to be common in military training from what I read so I guess it is in fact well studied and reasonably harmless compared to many alternatives.

That said I agree with a number of people here that in most cases the best alternative might be to talk to people instead, and to not kill suspects in custody, obviously, and also to not handcuff and throw people on the ground when all that should be necessary was to ask simple questions.