zlacker

>>mnm1+(OP)
Qualified immunity has become a get-out-of-jail-free card for law enforcement.

I believe it's the primary reason for the complete apathy law enforcement shows towards de-escalation and self-restraint in general.

Why bother behaving when the standard for prosecuting you is so high as to be laughable?

>>typeni+Yi
This is my feeling also, but in general I'm very frustrated at how this whole conversation is based on these "feelings" because the data is so poor. I think an important component is an independent oversight apparatus that (among many other things) is responsible for collecting standardized, high quality data that can be aggregated at a national level so we can conclusively answer questions like, "do police target certain races in their killings or is it an artifact of different crime distributions or etc?". It just seems insane to me that we keep going through this cycle over and over and spend so much time debating these questions, but we don't avail ourselves by the relatively inexpensive, straightforward step of collecting more/better data. Of course, not everyone will respect data over their own feelings/experiences, but (1) the data might agree with those feelings/experiences and (2) the rest of us can move toward a consensus at any rate.

>>throwa+Km
This "feelings" complaint is a major dog whistle you know.

The fact is, the relationship between unprivileged communities is such that:

- Crime rates to not reflect actual community grievances

- Community members do not want to rely on police even if they would like to bring in some sort of neutral authority / arbitrator to a dispute.

- The portion of would-be crime where the would-be victim is happy for the police presence is incredibly low.

- The portion of actual crime where the actual victim is sad for the police absence is incredibly low.

So it doesn't even matter if the statistics show the police kill extra in proportion to the neighborhoods the patrol and that in turn is proportional to the crime rate, because you haven't Baysianed deep enough to find the cycle. As exemplified by the latter two points, there is no way to find any value for the police as they currently with a democratic basis, and as such they must be defunded and replaced with something else.

>>Ericso+4H
> This "feelings" complaint is a major dog whistle you know.

I care very little about alleged dog whistles these days. You can only cry wolf so many times and all that.

> So it doesn't even matter if the statistics show the police kill extra in proportion to the neighborhoods the patrol and that in turn is proportional to the crime rate, because you haven't Baysianed deep enough to find the cycle.

Maybe you're right, but the conversation as far as I'm aware is still very much fixated on the former question. We are locked on this question and we can't meaningfully "baysian" our way to deeper questions without more authoritative data. If one actually cared about solving the problem, he ought to support this sort of data collection initiative.