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[return to "US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis"]
1. pm90+Qf[view] [source] 2020-05-29 18:33:49
>>pera+(OP)
This was very predictable. Tools invented for military operations abroad eventually, predictably find their way back domestically.

Despite that, its a dangerous thing to happen. I am aware of how unlikely it is for the current US Government to use the drone offensively, but once you have a massive fleet of drones flying over the US, patrolling "troubling" neighborhoods constantly, the temptation to use those abilities rises significantly.

I hope that Congress takes action to outlaw this practice, but I have little faith it will happen. It seems like everyday the country is falling further into the pit of becoming an authoritarian police state.

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2. beambo+Mg[view] [source] 2020-05-29 18:37:26
>>pm90+Qf
Where do you draw the distinction between a drone (presumably unarmed) vs a police helicopter?
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3. Alupis+QH[view] [source] 2020-05-29 21:01:19
>>beambo+Mg
I think we first need to determine what is upsetting about this, specifically.

Is it that they are flying a UAV that was originally designed for military use?

Or is it that they are flying a UAV period?

What if it was a new UAV, designed just for law enforcement? No problems then?

Presumably this UAV has no weapons on it, so I'm unsure what the problem could be unless we just flat oppose former military equipment being used?

It's safer and cheaper to fly a UAV than a manned vehicled - helicopters crash routinely and need multiple crews to keep them on station for extended duration. If it was a decommissioned military UAV that's being repurposed - then the tax payer has been saved a great deal of money as well.

So, what specifically is it that we don't like about this situation?

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4. _jal+RM[view] [source] 2020-05-29 21:34:27
>>Alupis+QH
As I said in another comment, the importance of the change doesn't lie in a narrow look at the changed component. It is formally about the overall balance of rights, responsibilities of citizens and police/military[1], and less formally about trust between the two and the overall climate we want to live in, as a country.

If you make a given police enforcement mechanism cheaper, it will be used more. What does that do to your average person's sense of privacy/fear/trust? What kind of relationship do we want to have between citizens[2] and its government?

[1] That line is being blurred.

[2] Not subjects

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5. Alupis+YO[view] [source] 2020-05-29 21:48:27
>>_jal+RM
I suppose, to that end, what about my rights to not be looted or have my car flipped over and set ablaze?

I suppose in those situations, I'd be grateful for some law enforcement presence monitoring the situation and guiding folks on the ground to the most appropriate places needing the most attention.

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6. _jal+nX[view] [source] 2020-05-29 22:42:42
>>Alupis+YO
This is sadly typical. An utter refusal to engage, just an expressed preference for as much state violence as needed to protect their car.
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7. Alupis+DZ[view] [source] 2020-05-29 23:01:36
>>_jal+nX
> This is sadly typical. An utter refusal to engage

Unfortunately I feel this is the direction most political conversations go as-of late. Talking right past each other.

To claim the other side has an utter refusal to engage is not just unfair, it's a perfect description of exactly the behavior you have just engaged in yourself. It would be more apt to substitute "utter refusal to engage" with "utter refusal to accept my opinion as fact".

I am the GP poster above. I thought I asked some provoking questions about why we have a problem with a former military drone (presumably demilitarized) flying over a city to conduct surveillance during a time of civil unrest.

Instead of thoughtful responses, this question has largely received criticism and claims that I support state violence. I haven't a clue how this is considered reasonable discourse - and it's no wonder the country grows further and further apart politically.

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8. _jal+Yd1[view] [source] 2020-05-30 01:07:00
>>Alupis+DZ
Thanks for explaining where you're coming from here. I'll offer my perspective.

I replied to your original comment, indicating my belief that the issue is substantially more complicated than your framing suggested, and briefly explained a couple reasons why. I have several more, if you honestly have any interest.

Your reply was to claim it is just about your property rights - the only relation to my comment was the response hierarchy. I honestly still don't see how that's not a refusal to engage.

One point:

> claims that I support state violence

Well, what do you call what's going on? (I do also consider intrusive surveillance a form of violence, but understand why some think that's dilutive to the term.)

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