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[return to "Wikimedia enacts new standards to address harassment and promote inclusivity"]
1. stormd+v2[view] [source] 2020-05-26 05:52:11
>>elsewh+(OP)
All the buzzwords are there, toxicity, harassment, safe spaces, sanction, ban, inclusivity. All to promote/cement the viewpoints that we now understand to be ,self evidently, the correct ones.
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2. TheSpi+d3[view] [source] 2020-05-26 06:02:15
>>stormd+v2
The most tolerant societies end up tolerating the intolerable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

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3. Feepin+t5[view] [source] 2020-05-26 06:25:29
>>TheSpi+d3
I'll embrace that. Yes, the most tolerant societies tolerate the intolerable, and that's good and right.

something something paradox of "please ban things I don't like" something what good is tolerance if people end up disagreeing with me

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4. shadow+Dt[view] [source] 2020-05-26 10:56:32
>>Feepin+t5
Tolerating the intolerable is much worse than that.

A society ends up nourishing something that destroys it, because the intolerable is under no obligation to play fair.

Germany wrestled its censorship laws from hard history lessons.

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5. free_r+uK[view] [source] 2020-05-26 13:03:01
>>shadow+Dt
The thing is, whenever you invoke Popper, you're calling the person you disagree with a literal Nazi who wants to liquidate millions of people.

Anything short of that and the logic falls apart -- there's no threat in tolerating some disagreeable person unless they go on to take over the government and forcibly outlaw all disagreement with them.

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6. shadow+kS[view] [source] 2020-05-26 13:49:41
>>free_r+uK
I'm afraid I don't know what "invoke Popper" means.

> there's no threat in tolerating some disagreeable person unless they go on to take over the government and forcibly outlaw all disagreement with them.

If that intent is demonstrable, there's no reason to assist them in their goals.

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7. free_r+FU[view] [source] 2020-05-26 14:01:02
>>shadow+kS
Karl Popper's the original author of the paradox of tolerance meme.

The paradox isn't "you don't have to tolerate intolerant people because they're bad and tolerance is our goal", the paradox is that tolerating people who then proceed to seize power and outlaw all disagreement with them undermines tolerance.

Unless there's a credible threat, it's a misuse of the quote.

If you're talking about anti-Nazi laws in Germany, fine, but I see the quote trotted out all the time to justify eg twitter banning some alt-right-adjacent nerd for having bad opinions.

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8. shadow+kW[view] [source] 2020-05-26 14:10:13
>>free_r+FU
I suspect what has changed is that such "alt-right-adjacent nerds" are increasingly seen as credible threats.

Nobody paid much attention to what that guy on gab was saying to like-minded folk on gab... Until he grabbed a gun and massacred everyone in a religious building.

When the threat evaluation models aren't trusted, the spread on evaluation of "credible threat" increases.

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9. free_r+LX[view] [source] 2020-05-26 14:16:13
>>shadow+kW
I mean, even a mass shooting like that doesn't trigger the paradox of tolerance. It's a terrible tragedy, and a law enforcement issue, but society as a whole is not less tolerant for it -- we all agree, don't shoot up a synagogue or mosque, that is extremely bad form in our society.

The paradox of tolerance would be if we decided to be tolerant of a pro-mosque-shooting political party and they took power and instituted mandatory mosque shootings every Friday. We would have messed up in that case.

It's not, "I demand people who disagree with me on less clear-cut issues be silenced because they're bigots, according to me".

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