zlacker

[return to "Ask HN: What scientific phenomenon do you wish someone would explain better?"]
1. vmcept+Yu[view] [source] 2020-04-26 23:17:02
>>qqqqqu+(OP)
Has someone that thought they were taking LSD ever turned into a permanent schizophrenic zombie or in a mental institution, or is it all urban legend. If someone that didn't know they were predisposed to mental illness, is it applicable to dismiss their experience in order to maintain how safe LSD is?

If any of this is true, are there any sources aside from "my friend's friend's brother took too much and now he is....", and what is the scientific explanation and do we know enough about the mind at all?

I feel like LSD has a lot of contradictory information out there, and the proponents feel the need to hand waive concerns away because it is 'completely harmless and leaves your system in 10 hours'. But when nobody knows what they're actually getting because it doesn't exist in a legal framework, then it muddies the whole experience.

People say certain doses can't do more effect than lower doses after a certain threshold. It seems like the same people say "omg man 1000ug you are going to fry your brain!"

What is the truth? If it "just" had an FDA warning like "people with a family history of schizophrenia should not take it", that would be wildly better than what we have today.

Please no explanation about shrooms. Just LSD the 'research chems' distributed as LSD.

◧◩
2. gavinr+KD[view] [source] 2020-04-27 00:36:48
>>vmcept+Yu
Permanent schizophrenic zombie, maybe a bit extreme, but severe and traumatic long-lasting psychological damage is a not-uncommon phenomena.

I had a fling with psychedelics in my teens, and everything was great until the one time it wasn't. I was taking psychedelics pretty much every weekend, and by my count have tried over a dozen of them.

Had an experience with LSD which completely shook me to my core and gave me such severe PTSD and trauma that every night I started to have massive panic attacks and needed medical help. My entire worldview and perception of reality was shattered, I wasn't able to "anchor" myself anymore and it all felt like a sham. I was completely dissociated. I also got HPPD: to this day, everything has a sharpened oil-painting type texture to it that increases based on my anxiety level, and I'm sensitive to visual + aural stimuli (loud, brightly-colored places are unpleasant). If I get too anxious, I start to dissociate.

It took ~2 years for the PTSD to subside for the most part, but still if I am under a lot of stress I am liable to have a panic attack and get flashbacks and need to go find somewhere quiet to sit somewhere alone to try to work through it.

LSD being the particular substance has nothing to do with it, in my opinion. I was young, dumb, reckless, and played with fire then got burned. It could have happened with any of the other dozen psychedelics I took, but it just so happened to be LSD the one time that it did.

But I want to add, that while giving me the most nightmarish, traumatizing experience of my life, the best/most positively-profound experience has also been on the same substance. I grew up in a pretty abusive household and didn't do well forming relationships growing up, and had a lot of anger and resentment in my worldview. After taking psychedelics (LSD, 2C-B, Shrooms) and MDMA with the right group of people a few times, my entire perspective shifted. For the first time in my life, it felt like I understand how it felt to be loved, and what "love" was, and how we're "all in this together" so we may as well be good to each other while we're here.

It's been a long time since I've touched any of that stuff and I'm not sure I ever will again, but I don't think it's inherently bad or good. Psychedelics are like knives, they're neutral - can be used as a tool or cut the hell out of you if you're reckless.

---

Footnote: For context, this was probably due to life circumstances/psyche at the time. I was in a relationship with a pretty toxic partner, and my mental state wasn't the greatest. In hindsight, it seems like I was almost begging for a "slap in the face" if you will.

◧◩◪
3. kace91+XG[view] [source] 2020-04-27 01:09:23
>>gavinr+KD
If you don't mind me asking (and this is clearly a sensitive topic so feel free not to reply): What do you mean by PTSD and flashbacks? As in, was the trip so bad that remembering it creates anxiety, or are you reliving unrelated traumatic memories that weren't an issue to live with before using the drug?
◧◩◪◨
4. gavinr+bH[view] [source] 2020-04-27 01:12:33
>>kace91+XG
It literally feels as if I'm being transported back to that same night, starting to relive it all over again. It's entirely illogical but if you knew what happened it might make more sense (happy to elaborate here and give a brief description of what happened/why it messed me up so bad, I'm perfectly okay to talk about it now).
◧◩◪◨⬒
5. coffee+9V[view] [source] 2020-04-27 04:11:51
>>gavinr+bH
I'd be interested to hear your story. I've never used psychedelic drugs, but I find their effects fascinating.
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓
6. gavinr+YY[view] [source] 2020-04-27 05:11:16
>>coffee+9V
I took 300ug of LSD recklessly on a particularly bad day for me, in a particularly uncomfortable setting.

Well, that night went bad. Really, really, life-alteringly bad. For the first time, I had a bad trip. And not like, some mildly uncomfortable thoughts. I got a bad feeling in my stomach from the moment I dosed, and I knew something was going to be different this time.

As I started to come up, the bad feeling and a dark presence grew, and I pulled out my phone. I started a timer, and I watched as the time slowed to a point where it completely stopped. I started looping, I would get up off the couch, walk a few feet, and be teleported back. Over and over.

I realized that I had gotten so high, that time was no longer moving. And if time was not moving, I could maybe never come down. I was stuck here forever. And then the hellish nightmare started.

I felt like I was losing control of myself, like something else was trying to take over, and whoever won the battle, that is the consciousness that would exist. The more I fought, the more painful things got. Pain the likes of which I no one can physically imagine.

Went upstairs and laid down in my bed, began going out of body. I started dying over and over in unimaginable ways in my head, trapped in loops. Pain beyond anything I've ever felt in reality, there was no limit. It was tied to my breath, I realized that it had been so long since I had breathed, I kept forgetting who I was and what was going on, and then I would catch a slight glimpse and remember and fight so hard to take another breath. And there was so much pain in fighting to "survive" and hold on to who I was.

Eventually, the pain/struggle became too much, and I "gave in" and said "okay, I give up, you win, I can't take it anymore, I'd rather die." And that's when it's stopped. There appeared this giant shape of light/energy that was every color at once, and colors we don't have words for, and it "touched me" (could have been me moving towards it, or it towards me, there wasn't really a concept of this).

When it "touched" me, what it "showed" me was something I later learned is called an "Ouroboros", the snake eating it's tail. It showed me what "infinity" really meant, and that was too much to handle and shattered my psyche.

In that moment my body/mind/soul felt like it was obliterated to pieces by some energy beam in the most excruciating, searing pain, and I woke up in my bed having just pissed myself.

It took a long time to piece myself back together after that one.

---

There are a lot of details I've omitted for brevity's sake, but this captures the gist of it.

The majority of my trauma has to do with anything related to loops: think Nietzsche's Eternal Return, general time-loops, fear of time-stopping, etc.

When I have panic attacks I have to stop myself from starting a stopwatch on my phone to make sure time is still moving because it'll cause a feedback loop and ratchet-up the panic, causing the time-dilation to increase in a vicious cycle.

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔
7. kharak+Xl1[view] [source] 2020-04-27 10:11:59
>>gavinr+YY
Holy. That sounds intense, to say the least. A part of me likes to experience this, even though you made it abundantly clear, that it did not have a positive impact on your life.
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯
8. vmcept+rE1[view] [source] 2020-04-27 13:30:32
>>kharak+Xl1
"ego death" is a common aspect of acid trips and the experience seems to come down to your willingness to relinquish control. this reads like what was described. if you were to look up that term you'll see others that will feature similar features - with or without pain, with or without worry.

not having a reliable way to know exactly what you took can amplify the anxiety, when your brain starts filling up with seratonin and whites everything out just like people on their deathbeds report, are you supposed to let go? when your sense of self has been obliterated and the next moment you are in the body of another mammal lost and confused in the forest for an entire lifetime before being transported back into your body and only a minute has gone by - but your trip is to last another 9 hours, should you fight it? Distinct neural networks in your mind that never communicate are now connected, vestigial components of the mind are now being expressed, are you being replaced in a firmware dump and flash?

a lot of people have a friend with them to guide them through an acid trip because trips can be steered with sounds and words, simple chimes, melodies.

would it have helped? very hard to say. but as the author wrote, the bad day and uncomfortable setting did not help. It is similar to a dream state (just radically more intense), where the things on your mind and also happening around you can affect the direction of your dreams.

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯▣
9. gavinr+aI1[view] [source] 2020-04-27 13:58:30
>>vmcept+rE1
Yeah, I think it entirely had to do with my inability to relinquish control and "just let go". Although in this context, that was literally what felt like the fight to survive, instead of "being chill". Ego death commonly is either the most horrendous or most nirvanic thing depending on how readily someone gives in.

> when your sense of self has been obliterated and the next moment you are in the body of another mammal lost and confused in the forest for an entire lifetime before being transported back into your body and only a minute has gone by - but your trip is to last another 9 hours, should you fight it?

There was a lot of this, during that out-of-body-period. I existed in multiple places/points in time at once as different people of various ages/genders/nationalities and then occasionally as animals, and lived entire simultaneous lifetimes. At one "time", in places + times A, B, C, D as different living things. Really does a number on your sense of self for a bit, heh.

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯▣▦
10. vmcept+TO1[view] [source] 2020-04-27 14:43:57
>>gavinr+aI1
and that had never happened to you in your other trips?
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯▣▦▧
11. gavinr+sq3[view] [source] 2020-04-28 01:47:55
>>vmcept+TO1
No, was really strange, I was pretty experienced by then too. Was never the same after.
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯▣▦▧▨
12. vmcept+t84[view] [source] 2020-04-28 09:21:53
>>gavinr+sq3
Did you take 300ug before?

Sorry for the questions, we can talk about it somewhere else, just add an email or protonmail account to your hackernews account I'll mail you there

[go to top]