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[return to "Amazon fires worker who led strike over virus"]
1. Boiled+x7[view] [source] 2020-03-31 16:15:25
>>blago+(OP)
Here is the key point Amazon claims he was exposed to the worker on March 11th. Over the weekened he said he is organizing a strike, so over the weekend they order him and only him into quarantine. A full 18 days after his 5 min exposure. From my reading of it, this almost certainly looks like retaliatory action due to the strike, and a company using the excuse of quarantine to cover it up.

Key excerpts from a much clearer article. And yet again, why you never 100% believe a company's PR response when they're trying to cover themselves. They tell just enough truth, but use it to intentionally mislead.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/31/amazon-strik...

> According to the company’s previous statements, the infected co-worker in question last reported for work on 11 March. Had Smalls been exposed that day, a 14-day mandatory quarantine would have made him eligible to return as soon as 25 March.

> Smalls said Amazon did not send him home until 28 March, three weeks after the exposure.

> “No one else was put on quarantine,” he said, even as the infected person worked alongside “associates for 10-plus hours a week”.

> “You put me on quarantine for coming into contact with somebody, but I was around [that person] for less than five minutes,” he told Vice.

> According to Amazon, no one else was fired. Smalls said he was considering legal action, calling it “a no-brainer”.

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2. Reedx+Fb[view] [source] 2020-03-31 16:34:17
>>Boiled+x7
We should apply rigor to both sides. Each has incentive to cherry pick and mislead.

> key point Amazon claims he was exposed to the worker on March 11th

Did they claim that? I'm looking for a source on this. "According to the company’s previous statements, the infected co-worker in question last reported for work on 11 March", but when you look at their linked source[1] it says: "Amazon confirmed an associate, who reported for work on 11 March, has since been diagnosed with Covid-19".

> “No one else was put on quarantine,” he said

Is this confirmed? You can't just assume this to be true. Pretty damning if so, though.

> “You put me on quarantine for coming into contact with somebody, but I was around [that person] for less than five minutes,” he told Vice.

Viral transmission has no minimum timeline and often occurs at first point of contact (e.g., handshake) or cough/sneeze at any time. Kind of irresponsible to even print that quote without correcting the argument.

It may be that Amazon retaliated, but stuff like this doesn't prove it. We need the hard facts. At this point it's unclear and sounds fishy on both sides.

1. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/mar/30/amazon-wo...

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3. boombo+Re[view] [source] 2020-03-31 16:51:10
>>Reedx+Fb
>Is this confirmed? You can't just assume this to be true.

From Vice

>Amazon did not immediately respond to an email Tuesday morning asking how many people at the site have been ordered into self-quarantine

Even if they did quarantine others, putting someone on a 14 day quarantine 17 days after contact is hard to explain.

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4. rumana+Gh[view] [source] 2020-03-31 17:05:30
>>boombo+Re
> Even if they did quarantine others, putting someone on a 14 day quarantine 17 days after contact is hard to explain.

It would be harder to explain why Amazon didn't put on quarantine an employee who was vocal about his exposure to the virus.

At most it sounds like malevolent compliance.

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5. pergad+ml[view] [source] 2020-03-31 17:24:32
>>rumana+Gh
No, at most it sounds like retaliation.

They did not follow health guidelines until the person complained and then they still don't follow them but instead claim to follow them. Why just claim? After the 14 day phase the guidelines don't suggest any quarantines unless people show symptoms.

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6. rumana+ws[view] [source] 2020-03-31 17:56:52
>>pergad+ml
> No, at most it sounds like retaliation.

Full paid leave is not what most people in the US would call retaliation, particularly in the case of a warehouse worker.

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7. throwa+7v[view] [source] 2020-03-31 18:10:37
>>rumana+ws
The retaliation part is where they got fired.
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8. jaywal+5G[view] [source] 2020-03-31 19:05:24
>>throwa+7v
He got fired for showing up to work when he was told to stay home.
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9. sudosy+UR[view] [source] 2020-03-31 20:09:37
>>jaywal+5G
So what's your solution then, companies can just tell employees to stay home for no valid when they try to plan a strike or organize, and then fire them if they still try to do so?
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10. jaywal+nT[view] [source] 2020-03-31 20:17:05
>>sudosy+UR
It's unclear whether there was "no valid reason" or not in this case. But if they're paying the employee to stay home (like Amazon was in this case) it's hard for me to see a huge problem.
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11. sudosy+DX[view] [source] 2020-03-31 20:39:43
>>jaywal+nT
The issue is that this prevents him from organizing strikes effectively. That is very problematic.
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12. Camper+Nd1[view] [source] 2020-03-31 22:15:15
>>sudosy+DX
How about not trying to organize a strike in the middle of a national emergency? Is that an option?
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13. throwa+9g1[view] [source] 2020-03-31 22:29:39
>>Camper+Nd1
You realize why he wanted to organize a strike right? Amazon knew that one of his co-workers was infected, and said and did nothing.
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14. Camper+Uj1[view] [source] 2020-03-31 22:57:04
>>throwa+9g1
Hosing everybody -- your company, your coworkers, your customers, yourself -- with a strike isn't the way to address that issue.

We have these things called "courts" that are well-suited to addressing complaints like this one.

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15. throwa+sl1[view] [source] 2020-03-31 23:10:41
>>Camper+Uj1
You sound like you have it all figured out, perhaps you can point at which law amazon violated.
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16. Camper+xm1[view] [source] 2020-03-31 23:17:50
>>throwa+sl1
Honestly, it's not a good look for them if they tried to order him into quarantine 18 days after his exposure. I can't defend that based on what I've read from the Amazon supporters here.

But a strike, right now, is not the answer. It's just pouring gasoline on the fire. Counterproductive at all levels. Labor organization is all about picking your battles, and this is the wrong fight in the wrong place at the wrong time. His beef with Amazon needs to be settled in a courtroom, not on a picket line.

The only worse thing he could have done would be to try to lead a strike during a world war.

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17. Apocry+ay1[view] [source] 2020-04-01 00:55:32
>>Camper+xm1
> The only worse thing he could have done would be to try to lead a strike during a world war.

That’s how we came to have employer-provided healthcare:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/05/upshot/the-real-reason-th...

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18. Camper+QA1[view] [source] 2020-04-01 01:24:43
>>Apocry+ay1
Did you read the article you linked to? Employer-provided insurance had nothing to do with strikes or unions. It became popular as a way to improve competition in the job market in the presence of wartime wage controls.

And it's arguably a terrible system that we're still stuck with today, with the effect of handcuffing productive people to their desks in dead-end jobs. We'd be far better off with universal coverage that's not tied to employment... and yes, that means better-off economically.

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