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[return to "Sex and STEM: Stubborn Facts and Stubborn Ideologies"]
1. tptace+Ti[view] [source] 2018-02-15 13:24:51
>>andren+(OP)
Once again: compared to other STEM fields, women participate less in CS than any other field except physics. By double digits percentage more in mathematics PhDs. Statistics is almost 50/50. Several rigorous earth sciences fields --- chem and biochem, for instance --- have 50% or greater female participation.

One thing all these fields have in common is that they are more intellectually rigorous and harder to succeed in than the computer software industry.

Clearly, they have something else in common. We just need to figure out what it is.

This essay, which invokes the "Google Memo", is subtly attacking a straw man. Even those almost the entire rest of STEM is better than CS, it's true that it's not balanced; it remains deeply imperfect. Physics and mechanical engineering, clustered with CS, remain the province of men. There's a expanse of STEM fields with female participation between 25-40% that you'd want to explain or correct. Is it stereotype threat? Implicit bias? Who knows? Probably not?

But that has nothing to do with why Google has so few women engineers. The work that a commercial software engineer does --- even at the lofty heights in which the profession is practiced in such a cathedral of software design as the Alphabet Corporation --- is simply not that hard; most of it is just wiring form fields to databases in new and exciting ways.

Whatever is holding women's participation in our field at or below twenty percent is artificial, and a travesty.

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2. aws_ls+To[view] [source] 2018-02-15 14:23:12
>>tptace+Ti
>most of it is just wiring form fields to databases in new and exciting ways

Not commenting on other points, but may be you are looking at it from an angle of an expert who has mastered it, so everything looks trivial. As, clearly its much more than that. It is like building extension for machines - the brains and the controls and also pure information management. That's why projects run into millions of lines of code. And the complexity is still growing, as we have new fields like ML emerging on top of it.

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3. weeelv+5v[view] [source] 2018-02-15 15:05:39
>>aws_ls+To
I agree with tptacek here. Based on just my experience (contractor then corporate programmer for the last decade), probably 99% of programming work out there in the world is mechanical rote that just involves reading comprehension and the ability to mechanically execute steps in some order. Calling this type of work complex only means someone fucked up somewhere.

Certainly there are specializations that are pushing the edge of research, but we are talking about an industry here, not the few research-y jobs that still exist.

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4. collyw+7z[view] [source] 2018-02-15 15:30:30
>>weeelv+5v
15 years in I have built systems from scratch and done menial janitor work. I don't think its fair to say that that it isn't complex, some shitty work can be really complex due to subtleties and it would take someone with a fair bit of experience to fix. If it was so easy there wouldn't be a shortage of tech workers and our wages would be way lower.
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