zlacker

[return to "Getting free of toxic tech culture"]
1. Karrot+e1[view] [source] 2018-01-18 22:55:12
>>zdw+(OP)
> The refrain of how a startup CEO is going to save humanity is so common that it’s actually uncommon for a CEO to not use saviour language when describing their startup. Cult leaders do the same thing: they create a unique philosophy, imbued with some sort of special message that they alone can see or hear, convince people that only they have the answers for what ails humanity, and use that influence to control the people around them.

I agree. I've been working in Silicon Valley for a few years now, and it honestly feels like a page out of Animal Farm. The Orwellian mismatch between rhetoric and action feels like cult-like propaganda to me.

I don't know how veterans of the Valley can keep this up.

◧◩
2. smsm42+T4[view] [source] 2018-01-18 23:30:39
>>Karrot+e1
I've been in SV for a decade now and I am not observing anything cult-like. I haven't worked for companies like Google or Facebook or any other giant behemoths, so no idea how things are there, but in other places it's pretty far from a cult where I am.

Of course, marketing sometimes goes a bit over the board, and each release of version 8.4 is the best thing that happened to humanity since v8.3 was released and before it's time to release v8.5. But that's kind of expected, nobody I know takes it as a literal truth.

And of course there are mission statements that talk about improving human condition and expanding horizons and saving the world. Sometimes it happens, at least to a measure, sometimes it doesn't, but that's not usually what you're thinking the whole day about, and even not something you think about every week or every month.

And of course (almost) each startup CEO thinks his (or her) startup is going to change the world, or at least some part of it. That's how you should think if you're getting into a startup, otherwise it's not worth the trouble, the stress and the extremely high chance of failure. Of course the CEO believes she (or he) found some special thing nobody thought of before and some unique vision nobody had before - otherwise how the startup could take off the ground at all?

And really, describing giving up free gym, yoga class and cafeteria as "something horrible happening to you"... I can't even find adequate words to describe how wrong this is.

◧◩◪
3. Doreen+3f[view] [source] 2018-01-19 01:15:01
>>smsm42+T4
I haven't worked for companies like Google or Facebook or any other giant behemoths, so no idea how things are there, but in other places it's pretty far from a cult where I am.

I worked for a non tech Fortune 500 company. It was fairly cult like. It didn't really bother me because my father and ex were both career military, so I considered the cult like elements evidence of how unimportant the work was. The military isn't cult like. You take things seriously because lives are on the line and national security is on the line. Having been around the military helped inoculate me against the cult like elements of corporate culture.

I had some sympathy for why it was that way. Building a very successful company is kind of like magic. We don't really know how it works, yet it is life giving. These people had well paid jobs because... Magic. And working there meant that when I made small talk while ordering food or getting a haircut, people oohed and aahed that I worked there at all. Not everyone could get in.

But my work as a military wife, without even being in the army, had been more important. For me, it was a step down in intensity. It was just a job. Meanwhile, coworkers often felt working there was the biggest thing that ever happened to them.

◧◩◪◨
4. tinymo+rl1[view] [source] 2018-01-19 16:34:03
>>Doreen+3f
I disagree. Although I wasn't a military spouse or in the service, I worked on base for 7 years and saw a lot of things that made me think military service is essentially the ultimate cult.

They:

* break you down in boot camp to build you up in their image, with their values (esp Marines)

* force you to accept teachings that are demonstrably false (source: friend went to nuclear engineering school, nearly got kicked out for pointing out flaws in how they taught nuclear theory).

* control where you live, where you sleep, what you eat

* indoctrinate you (onboarding at my base was literally called "indoc[trination]")

* bestow status for pleasing the leaders of the cult (the career game)

Personally, I think the indoc makes service members believe lives and national security are on the line. Anymore, I believe the biggest threat to our country (and thus the lives of those who protect it) is ourselves.

I don't disagree this can be effective, but strongly believe the military is a cult.

◧◩◪◨⬒
5. Doreen+0G1[view] [source] 2018-01-19 19:03:40
>>tinymo+rl1
They do what is necessary to prepare people for battle.

It seems to me hippies who see the biggest threats as internal are always a product of a secure environment. I suspect such attitudes don't thrive in places with war on the ground. America has never had a major invasion in terms of amount of land invaded. We seem particularly prone to this idea that war happens elsewhere and is not a real and serious threat.

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓
6. tinymo+lk4[view] [source] 2018-01-21 17:33:18
>>Doreen+0G1
There are many different schools of thought within military academic on what it takes to prepare for battle. The current implementation is one that leadership currently thinks is best, although I bet we agree that the military suffers from a lot of historical baggage that would not be included if we were engineering an entirely new system from scratch, optimized for the current world.

Regardless, my comment wasn't intended to be judgemental, I apologize if it came off that way. I just wanted to point out the similarities between effective cult leadership and military indoctrination, but should have been more clear that I was speaking more academically.

[go to top]