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1. db48x+D2[view] [source] 2017-02-28 02:06:00
>>codero+(OP)
The long-term solution is simply not to work anywhere that insists on running a MITM attack on all of your communications.
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2. wildmu+n4[view] [source] 2017-02-28 02:34:57
>>db48x+D2
Without an SSL MITM, Intrusion Detection Systems (IDS's) are much less effective.

If you're using your company's network, then they have every right to monitor all of the activity on it. They're trying to protect trade secrets, future plans, customer data, employee records, etc. from attackers who would use that information to do harm to the company, its customers, and its employees. If you don't want your employer to know what you're doing, then don't use the company computer or company network to do it. And while you may think that you're too tech savvy to fall prey to malware 1) not everyone at your company is, and 2) no amount of savvy will protect you from all malware, especially ones that gain a foothold through an unpatched exploit. And there's also that whole other can of worms: malicious employees.

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3. rossy+ab[view] [source] 2017-02-28 04:06:28
>>wildmu+n4
I think this SSL MITM thing has gone way too far. When an exec asks an engineer if it's possible to monitor all internet communication that goes in and out of the company network, including communication that is encrypted by TLS, the correct answer is no. In fact, this specific thing is what TLS is designed to prevent, and new implementations of the protocol are only going to get better at preventing it. The exec will only get the answer they want if they pressure the engineer, or if the engineer is trying to sell them something (like a MITM proxy.) Then the engineer will admit that it's possible to snoop on some TLS connections if you do awful things like installing fake certificates on company laptops. They may or may not mention that if they do it wrong it will degrade the security of everything on the network. God forbid the computers at a bank should be less secure than the computers in the average household because a MITM proxy is silently downgrading the security of all the TLS connections that travel through it.

Now, because engineers are so bad at saying 'no' to the people who want SSL MITM, it's apparently become a regulatory requirement. SSL MITM might let you passively surveil your employees' Facebook Messenger conversations, but it still doesn't protect you against a malicious employee who is tech-savvy (or malware written by people who have SSL MITM proxies in mind.) They could just put the information they want to smuggle out of the network into an encrypted .zip. They could even do something creative like using steganography to hide it in family photos that they upload to Facebook. The only real solution to this is to lock down the devices that people access the network on, not the network itself.

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4. wildmu+Aj[view] [source] 2017-02-28 05:55:27
>>rossy+ab
>In fact, this specific thing is what TLS is designed to prevent, and new implementations of the protocol are only going to get better at preventing it.

This isn't true. The TLS protocol is not a philosophy; it does not have an opinion on who you should trust as a root certificate authority. If you trust a particular root, it is wholly within the design of TLS to allow connections that are monitored by whoever controls that root authority. Who is trusted is up to you.

>They may or may not mention that if they do it wrong it will degrade the security of everything on the network.

Right, that's why you don't do it wrong. This same argument applies for any monitoring technology, like cameras. An insecure camera system actually helps a would-be intruder by giving them valuable information. So if you install cameras, you'd better do it right.

As for your list of ways such a system could be circumvented, I don't understand the logic of it. So because there are ways around a security measure, you shouldn't use the security measure at all? There is no security panacea, just a wide range of imperfect measures to be deployed based on your threat model and resources. And luckily, most bad guys are pretty incompetent. But to address some examples you give, and show how not all is lost:

- A large encrypted zip file is sent out of the network. Depending on what your concerns are, that could be a red flag and warrant further analysis of that machine's/user's activity.

- Software trying to circumvent your firewall/IDS is definitely a red flag. You might even block such detected attempts by default, and just maintain a whitelist for traffic that should be allowed regardless (e.g. for approved apps that use pinned certificates for updates).

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5. fulafe+ol[view] [source] 2017-02-28 06:21:02
>>wildmu+Aj
> > In fact, this specific thing is what TLS is designed to prevent, and new implementations of the protocol are only going to get better at preventing it.

> This isn't true. The TLS protocol is not a philosophy; [...]

Well, the TLS specification [1] says as the first sentence of the introduction:

"The primary goal of the TLS protocol is to provide privacy and data integrity between two communicating applications."

I think, if something is "the primary design objective of TLS", it can be said that TLS is designed to do it.

[1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5246#section-1

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