zlacker

>>chei0a+(OP)
I really could do without "considered harmful" titles. x86 has been one of the most influential technologies of all time and a clickbait title doesn't do it justice imo.

>>n0us+l2
So were PHP and goto statements.

How influential something is has nothing to do with how good it is.

>>wyager+26
The PHP bashing on this site is untenable. PHP has no intrinsic properties which stop a good programmer from writing elegant code for web applications. It's a tired discussion, I know, but the most you can say is that it's frequently abused. The oft cited "Spectacle of bad design" essay has been credibly rebutted point-by-point by other authors.

>>jrcii+rc
When some insist to use C++/JavaScript/PHP/MySql/Mongo/etc (tools with bad design/complexity/bug-prone/etc flaws) with the excuse that is possible to use them "well" if only we are more "disciplined" and "pay attention"?

When bad tools are bad, discipline is not the answer. Is fix the tool, or get rid of them.

Why developers understand that if a end-user have a high-error rate in one program is a problem with the program but when that happend with a language/tool for developers... not think the same???

"Good programmer" is almost a keyword in this context as "someone with the experience with for workaround and avoid the pitfalls that a tool is giving to him, plus also do his job" when is better if "someone that can concentrate in do his job".

Of course, workaround the pitfalls of tools is unavoidable in a world where "worse is better" have win. But why persist on this?

>>mamcx+ti
> Of course, workaround the pitfalls of tools is unavoidable in a world where "worse is better" have win. But why persist on this?

Because the unstated alternative is a false choice. It would be nice if all of the code written in poorly designed languages would disappear and be replaced with code in better designed languages, but that isn't realistic. Migrating a large codebase to a different language is very expensive and introduces fresh bugs, less popular languages aren't supported by all platforms and libraries, and large numbers of people have made significant time investments in learning languages that are popular even if they aren't very good. So the old languages aren't going away.

Given that, it's better that we teach people the pitfalls of the things we're stuck with, and improve them with things like std::unique_ptr in C++ or safer SQL APIs that discourage manual parsing of SQL statements, than to pretend that there is no middle ground between continuing the tradition of bad code and the fantasy of rewriting essentially all existing code from scratch overnight.

>>Anthon+kL
Yeah, short term is the right thing. But I'm talking about why stay in the same loop DECADES? Because the pile of mud is bigger with each iteration. Eventually, I think, the cost of a clean start will be far less that push ahead.

I don't underestimate the problem (I work in the LESS progressive area of programming: Internal Business apps / apps for non-startups, non-sexy-games-chat-scalable-apps!) so I'm full aware...

But what drive me crazy is that is developers that defend their tools as "them are good! why bother!", not because them use the business/cost defense...

So, yeah... let's not rewrite everything that is working right now. But also, a lot of time we can choose what to use, special for new projects... at least pick well next time...